You mean Religions AREN’T allowed to dictate civil rights?

In case you were unaware, Mormons typically don’t like gays. They hate them so much they devoted a significant portion of their resources to pushing for Prop 8, using all kinds of ridiculous fear mongering and veiled bigotry to convince people that allowing marriages between individuals of the same sex would somehow torpedo their own unions. It didn’t matter to them this was a complete and utter fabrication; remember, these are the same folks who believe Native Americans were actually cursed Jews .

The religious authorities of the Church, known commonly as “Elders”, have been pretty clever with their use of rhetoric to mask their bigotry and disdain for civil rights, but recently one of their old fogies started complaining about Perry v. Schwarzenegger, the court case challenging the legality of Proposition 8. Elder Lance Wickman believes this case will specifically erode the “liberty” religions have in influencing politicians, something he believes is the fundamental right of all crazy conservative religions:

I believe that the greatest challenge faced by the church,” Elder Wickman said, “is the challenge to religious liberty that is growing worldwide. … A battle is looming over the effort to acquire civil social rights at the expense of civil religious rights. This battle, I believe, represents the acceleration of a disturbing slide downward in the law regarding the place of religion in the public square.

Perry seeks a court declaration that, as a matter of law, religious views may not be used to justify the denial of a social civil right.

Wow, I guess that says it all, doesn’t it? The fact this idiot actually BELIEVES religions have a right to impose their twisted and bigoted world view on the rest of us is telling. Finally, a little bit of honesty coming out of the Mormon camp. Luckily, Americans still benefit (for now) from the separation of church and state, which dictates quite plainly religions have absolutely no fucking business in politics, for exactly the reasons outlined by Elder Wickman; they seek to impose their limited view of civil liberties on others, and that simply isn’t acceptable.

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Comments (4)

  • avatar

    Steve Bradford

    I think you misread that.
    Perry is attempting to bring into law that no voters may take into account their religious beliefs when voting on civil social rights.
    Here’s the quote:
    “Perry seeks a court declaration that, as a matter of law, religious views may not be used to justify the denial of a social civil right,” he said. “Stated differently, they essentially claim that the voters, from whom all authority in a democracy flows, may not consider religious views and values when deciding these alleged social and cultural civil rights.”
    So you got it backwards. The ones seeking to impose their view of civil liberties are the one’s backing Perry, not the religions.

  • avatar

    Jacob Fortin

    yeah, clearly I must be the one misreading it…do you need glasses or just a new brain?

  • avatar

    Andrew S.

    The key to understanding Steve’s reasoning (and Wickman’s) is to look at the restatement:

    Stated differently, they essentially claim that the voters, from whom all authority in a democracy flows, may not consider religious views and values when deciding these alleged social and cultural civil rights.

    For religious individuals, it is utterly unacceptable and atrocious to even consider withholding their religiosity from the voting process. They’d probably interpret the idea of separation of church and state quite differently as well, noting that it is not (nor never was) saying “that religions have absolutely no fucking business in politics,” but rather that the state shouldn’t have its own church (or unfairly support one church) and should allow its citizens free religious exercise.

    Notice how in such an interpretation (especially with the free exercise clause), there is nothing that says the people can’t use their religious sentiments in the political process. (so that is why Wickman’s quote says, “the voters, from whom all authority in a democracy flows”)

    So, this kind of argument won’t get there. Religious people and secular people won’t even be seeing eye to eye.

    I think the better case is this: WHY SHOULD WE BE VOTING ON MINORITY RIGHTS IN THE FIRST PLACE? Voters should not consider religious views and values when deciding on alleged social and cultural civil rights because voters (the “majority”) should not be deciding on alleged social and cultural civil rights in the first place. Minority rights should be established and protected *from* the majority.

    Mormons, as a religious minority that has faced persecution, should know (and appreciate) the protection of minorities from majority rule dearly.

  • avatar

    James Smith João Pessoa, Brazil

    Why should this surprise anyone? Religions, Jewish, Christian, Islamic, and others that I shall collectively call the “religious reich” have always imposed their beliefs on everyone by the force of law. When that doesn’t work, they self-righteously engage in discrimination, hatred, intolerance, and even violence.

    It isn’t only the Muslims that use terrorism, in fact, they learned it from the christians during the crusades. Nor have the christians abandoned terrorism. Think about the abortion clinic bombings and murders. True, a few have made feeble noises about not endorsing it, but I have yet to hear one “holy man” rail out against it as they do about gay marriage, right to life, and their central issues.

    Religious people fall into three categories, fools, liars, and hypocrites; often all three at the same time.

    Most of the problems of the world are, and always have been caused by religion. Mankind will never truly be free until the black yoke of religion is lifted by the clear light of truth and logic.

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