Get your shit together, America!
October 16, 2009 11:35 am
You keep hearing that America is a divided nation. What that means is that a certain portion of the population still believes that homosexuals should be beaten or killed, that the Government should be ruled as a theocracy, and that only free market principles can help take care of people’s health issues (it’s been working great so far, right?).
Legislators in america have been trying to get hate laws amended to include homosexuals, but so far, they’ve met with fierce opposition. House Minority Leader John Boehner says that only “immutable characteristics” should be included in hate laws. This means he believes that religion is something you are born with, but not homosexuality. That, according to him, is entirely a choice.
Yeah, it’s quite clearly a choice, John. I’m sure this guy, who was savagely beaten by two men (one of which has a tattoo of Leviticus 18:22), chose to be gay. The attackers are also claiming that it was completely justified, saying that Jack Price (the victim) had “come on to them”.
What is frustrating here is that no one is calling out these people for the bigoted pieces of shit they really are. Boner Boehner gets away with his homophobic ranting because the majority of his constituents feel the same way he does. It’s time we put these kinds of people to shame; there’s no other way to go about it, America. Either you do something about the fact that a significant portion of your population is dangerously retarded, or these same assholes will drag you down to the dark ages. Is that what you really want?
Spread the outrage
67 Comments
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October 16, 2009
There’s a lotta fucked up countries and a lotta countries a lot more fucked up than the USA. I’m sick of hell those always attacking the USA. Show some intellectual honesty – the United States has the bombest constitution in the world and we’re in the process of getting rid of our prejudice.
Funny thing is, the USA is the one of the few, if not the only, country that cannot be run as an actual theocracy without an amendment to the constitution.
Another divided nation is Mexico, Mexico is a far more prejudice nation than the USA, same with Japan, same with China. I understand the USA is big and powerful and sometimes fucked up- so it’s an easy target.
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October 16, 2009
Oh and when you say “get your shit together America” I hope you understand your own prejudice in your statement.
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October 16, 2009
That’s some whitewash bullshit right there dude. Is that supposed to excuse your country? Mexico is worse?
You guys need to GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER. that’s the point of the article. It’s embarrassing that the so called leader of the free world acts in such unambiguously retarded ways.
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October 16, 2009
I didn’t say Mexico is better or worse, I just said they are more prejudice and I meant to imply on average. Many people don’t keep this in perspective. What does excuse your country even mean? The USA is a bunch of individuals living under largely the same laws. That’s about all – all of us here have in common.
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October 16, 2009
Don’t lump “America” in with some retards on the right. America as a whole only votes for the president and even then usually around half the voters don’t vote for the guy who got elected.
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October 16, 2009
If you don’t think your country is in need of a serious overhaul, you’re living in a fantasy land. Your country cannot continue to live and operate the way it is now. That’s just a fucking fact of life, man.
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October 16, 2009
That’s the best arguement defending USA? “USA: It’s not Mexico!”
I argee with Jacob in that there are too many stupid americans trying to get their beliefs in the law, I hear about it all the time. It’s dangerous, stupid and can only be stopped with with intelligence, one thing USA severely lacks. No offence, but did you know that 40% of americans can’t point to Britian on a map?
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October 16, 2009
Treat us as individuals. To do so otherwise and lump us in a group called “America” and then criticize is prejudice.
Issac if you don’t understand what i’m saying about Mexico or just refuse to – im not gonna break it down for you – it’s pretty self evident.
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October 16, 2009
How about something along the lines of, get your shit together fundamentalist Christians and homophobes in America?
Yea, there are lots of them, but lots of us aren’t and I don’t appreciate the whole country being thrown in with them.
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October 16, 2009
That can’t be a defense, Razzle. You’re asking for people not to scrutinize your country because it’s made up of “individuals”.
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October 16, 2009
Fair enough, but when I read the headline of the article I already knew what he was getting at, I did’t think Jacob was reffering to ALL the americans.
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October 16, 2009
Your DEMOCRATICALLY elected people can’t even get fired for being homophobic pieces of shit. Trust me, in most civilized nations, that shit don’t fly.
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October 16, 2009
I’m basically asking the rational minded people in your country to take it back from the crazies before they all drag us down to the dark ages, dude. The best way to do this is to call out everyone that’s a racist, bigot, or stupid fucker and shame them. Trust me, it works.
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October 16, 2009
I don’t know why you think I’m saying this, but if i was unclear, my point is I don’t like the generalities, they are damaging. You’re free and totally righteous to criticize the actions of the USA. What I’m saying, is please make your criticisms pointed rather than just saying that the USA is fucking up.
Headlines like yours, are an example of why people from other countries often dislike the individuals from the USA rather than just its government’s policies. You’re feeding prejudice.
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October 16, 2009
How about “Get your shit together the fundelmentalist christians and homophobes and all the americans who elected said people but NOT those who already have their shit sorted out”?
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October 16, 2009
* I should say they are feeding prejudice.
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October 16, 2009
Well, you operate as a nation, not as a group of antonymous individuals.
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October 16, 2009
It’s like hanging out with a large group, and having one of them punch you in the face. The rest of the group can’t fucking ignore what happened, or say that it’s not their problem since everyone is their own person. No, he’s part of your posse, and he’s your FUCKING RESPONSIBILITY.
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October 16, 2009
I, for example, operate as myself, I have very little to virtually no control over what goes down in my government and I don’t understand how your point contradicts anything i said.
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October 16, 2009
I would gave him a tranquilizer.
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October 16, 2009
Evil happens when Good men do nothing, Razzle. You cannot live in a bubble where you are only responsible for yourself. I already told you the answer to your problems. You need to publicly shame all the racists, bigots and retards that are ruining your country. Don’t fucking tell me there’s nothing you can do.
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October 16, 2009
//t’s like hanging out with a large group, and having one of them punch you in the face. The rest of the group can’t fucking ignore what happened, or say that it’s not their problem since everyone is their own person. No, he’s part of your posse, and he’s your FUCKING RESPONSIBILITY.//
You choose to be in that group. Most people born here didn’t make the active choice of coming here so your analogy is flawed.
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October 16, 2009
If you don’t want to be in that group, you leave that group.
If you don’t want to be in USA, move.
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October 16, 2009
//You need to publicly shame all the racists, bigots and retards that are ruining your country//
Agreed. And i try to.
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October 16, 2009
Isaac, I didn’t say the analogy was completely irrelevant, I was just demonstrating that it is flawed.
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October 16, 2009
Here’s a new analogy: You live in a big country and the powerful people in that country do bad things and you have virually no control over that, you don’t want to be lumped in with those people so you move.
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October 16, 2009
@Razzle
As an American who doesn’t fight against bigotry, homophobia, unconstitutional religious influence, racism, etc., you’re part of the problem. Every single person in the US is responsible for the kind of society they live in. If you don’t want to be held responsible for societal ills, then you have to fight against them.
Maybe if you were to live in the mountains and never interact with others, you wouldn’t be responsible for society, but because you do, because you partake and participate in society, you’re responsible for what happens.
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October 16, 2009
That’s not an analogy Issac.
You guys are defending prejudice and you don’t even realize it, if you realized what you’re saying, when you say it’s okay to lump people into groups based on surface similarities – is the same thing people use as a justification for racial prejudice, you wouldn’t be saying it.
You guys aren’t intentially prejudice as far as I can tell.
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October 16, 2009
//As an American who doesn’t fight against bigotry, homophobia, unconstitutional religious influence, racism, etc., you’re part of the problem.//
I don’t fight these? How would you know I don’t? Honestly, I do, I speak out to people every chance I get. I try to change the attitudes of people as best as God(lolz) allows me to, I’m not the only 1 either.
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October 16, 2009
Here’s a new analogy: You live in a big colany of ants and the big ones in charge are passing laws and hating homosexual ants because of the great ant bible. You don’t like what they’re doing so you move to a new colany.
Remember, one S, two As.
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October 16, 2009
Perhaps, if leaving the country was as easy as leaving an ant colony, you would have a point.
There would still be the problem that other countries you leave for might be worse in some ways, while being better in others, making it difficult to decide which is the best for you.
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October 16, 2009
Move to Canada, you can sleep on Jacob’s lap.
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October 16, 2009
Sounds good, i hear he’s a cuddler.
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October 16, 2009
Wow… 34 comments in under an hour. New record.
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October 16, 2009
If i come off as a hater, I really love the site and I agree with you guys most of the time.
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October 16, 2009
Of course if you sleep in Jeffory’s bed, your journey will definitly be worth it!
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October 16, 2009
// If i come off as a hater, I really love the site and I agree with you guys most of the time. //
Razzle your umbrage to his comment regarding the state of his entire country is misplaced. The responsibility to improve the state of your whole country lies with… your whole country, which would include those who are homophobic and bigoted, and those who are NOT homophobic and bigoted, to help fix the mindsets of those who are.
As a bisexual man living in a relatively accepting place, i’ve had the thankful fortune not to have met much bigotry at all. I feel for those living in places like kentucky, and the other less accepting places in the USA.
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October 16, 2009
Can we get back on point: John Boehner = Major Asshole, and the same goes for his god-toting house colleagues (I’m looking at you Bachman).
These clowns make me ultra happy to live in Canada. A country that made it’s ultra christy prime minister basically not mention his faith in public.
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October 16, 2009
The Americans are trying. We swear. Thirty states have voter-approved gay marriage bans in their constitutions. Several other states, including Washington, have bans that were passed by state lawmakers.
Why the push for Constitutional Amedments? Because the concervative Xian element in this country knows it’s losing. Ammendments are hard as shit to change. These crazy bigot laws are a way to “govern from beyond the grave,” but they’re failing.
And hey give us *some* credit, we voted for this guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7-FlZqB9dEAnd if you live in Washington state Vote Yes on Ref 71, and preserve our domestic partnership law.
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October 16, 2009
Obama is weak on human rights. Where is gay marriage? He’s not even in favor of it. I’m not saying there have been any presidents that are more tolerant of homosexuals than Obama, but his stance is lame.
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October 16, 2009
I bet you guys can’t wait until the new version of the site next year which will feature some pretty slammin’ forums! It’ll make tracking conversations and debates a lot more fun.
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October 16, 2009
As long as i can have as my profile pic Obama performing an abortion, it sounds great = )
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October 16, 2009
Next year? Does it really take that long? I thought any bozo could make a forum in a few minutes.
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October 16, 2009
The practical, relevant issue here is that this kind of legislation doesn’t belong in a defense spending bill; it needs to be dealt with in a more appropriate context as a completely separate entity. I’m unsure why anyone would feel a need to contest this point but I’ve yet to hear anyone on the Left make this concession. If there’s a rationale for doing so I’m unaware of, enlighten me.
Now there’s another issue to address here, and that’s the appropriateness (not the feasibility) of any and all “hate crime” legislation, regardless of the form it takes. Punish offenders for the crimes they commit, not their motivation for committing them. Yes, the Right has been quick to throw out the phrase “thought crime” (I watched several hours of coverage when this was brought to the floor, I’m making an attempt to defend no one here but a position) and I’m not beyond writing off the bulk of it as a facade to mask blatant, bigoted Christian dogma, but dismissing an argument wholly on the grounds of its representatives is as close-minded an action as you accuse the “moral majority” of committing chronically. So, before we write off the words of the ghost-worshipers (write off their thoughts all you like), let us consider this scenario: an outspokenly conservative white man is heading home one night on foot and is assaulted by a gang of homosexual males. The man was not handicapped, black, gay, or in military service; he was simply white and a victim. We can’t call this justice or restitution or (because of current law) a hate crime, despite its clearly being so. What have we accomplished?
A crime is a crime. If you hurt someone you deserve to pay for it. But under no truly moral code would you be punished by law for your beliefs, regardless of their implications.
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October 16, 2009
^ your example makes no sense. There isn’t a campaign of hatred and violence against straight white males. Hate crime is when you target specific groups and try to inflict violence on them. Because of their premeditation, this is what makes them different. It’s how you prosecute offenders that matters, and people who attack other human beings for their beliefs or sexual orientation are committing a different crime than a bunch of guys that get in a fight. Creating an imaginary scenario that has no basis in reality hardly makes your point valid.
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October 16, 2009
My example was hypothetical, but I don’t see how that invalidates it. Is there a “campaign of hatred and violence” targeted at those in uniform? Yet hate crime redefinitions will cover them. A straight white male targeted for his beliefs is as much of a victim as anyone else, despite his skin color and orientation. And what violent crimes don’t have some form of premeditation? Even in “crimes of passion” a decision must be made, somewhere. I never made the claim that attacking someone for their creed or orientation was the same as “getting in a fight” but I do maintain that hate crime legislation in its current incarnation is too problematic to be the solution.
You’ve addressed only one of my issues.
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October 16, 2009
I think Jacob’s point is that hate crimes don’t occur to straight white males because they are such. I think he would be in favor or such legislation, if members of that group were targeted as victims.
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October 16, 2009
*in favor of*
God, i really wish i could edit my posts =(
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October 16, 2009
I’m sure he would. And I realize they aren’t. It doesn’t exclude it from the realm of conception.
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October 16, 2009
Would you be okay with hate crime legislation, as long as it applied to hate against any group?
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October 16, 2009
It does, actually, it’s simply a harder case to make, because (as Jacob pointed out) heterosexual whites are in the majority. But this doesn’t make them any less potential a hate crime victim. The numbers are here, if you’re interested: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2007/incidents.htm
But to answer your question, how would you go about enforcing such legislation? How does one determine the motive behind a crime? Do we rely on testimony? How do we handle prosecution? How do we determine the “level of bias”?
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October 16, 2009
I don’t think you guys actually disagree in principal
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October 16, 2009
I realize I answered your question with questions w/o ever giving a finite answer. Feel free to conjecture.
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October 16, 2009
I don’t wanna argue on this, I just wanted to make it clear that you guys don’t seem to disagree in principal. Perhaps the only disagreement is if hate crime laws can be adequately enforced. As to that topic, I have no strong opinion, so I’m all ears.
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October 16, 2009
Lewis Black summarizes this Blog very nicely here (it’s only 4:00 long):
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October 17, 2009
//The practical, relevant issue here is that this kind of legislation doesn’t belong in a defense spending bill; it needs to be dealt with in a more appropriate context as a completely separate entity.//
You do know that the defense spending bill in question that you mention in your post was passed without the hate crimes addition about 2-3 months ago, correct William? The bill we are currently speaking of IS IN FACT an entirely separate entity known as the “Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act”.
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October 17, 2009
From the office of the Speaker of the House: “This afternoon, the House passed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act as part of the conference report on Defense Authorization for FY 2010.”
http://speaker.house.gov/blog/?p=2012
In case Pelosi’s not enough of a source for you:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/10/house_approves_hate_crimes_mea.html
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October 18, 2009
Right, well I guess I must have been misinformed on this matter. Thanks for better informing me on it, I guess. lol
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October 19, 2009
Hate crime laws are ridiculous. They only work one way. A crime is a crime. When you make it a hate crime, you are not only going after the criminal, but the criminals thoughts. THAT IS DANGEROUS! I am a White Male, if I get into a physical confrontation with a Black Male over, say, a parking spot. I, as well as he, will be arrested for that fight. Get any scumbag lawyer involved, and it becomes a hate crime. My sentence is increased, the amount that can be awarded in a civil lawsuit goes up, All because I am White… that’s it. You punish the crime, not what thoughts you think the criminal had at the time of the crime.
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October 19, 2009
//s. THAT IS DANGEROUS! I am a White Male, if I get into a physical confrontation with a Black Male over, say, a parking spot. I, as well as he, will be arrested for that fight. Get any scumbag lawyer involved, and it becomes a hate crime.//
This isn’t what a hate crime is. Also, you’re making assumptions that you have no basis for, you think both people are arrested whenever there is an altercation?
We already punish criminals for the thoughts behind the crime. A crime of passion gets less punishment than a premeditated crime. Hate crime legislation does have potential to over reach, so we must take care to make sure we aren’t favoring 1 group over another as the result of it, but it can work if carefully implemented.
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January 14, 2010
Perhaps it’s time for some parliamentary-style democracy, a more than two-party system for the United States. Not that we’re thorougly well-represented in Canada, but at least we have a few more choices in the political spectrum.
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January 15, 2010
did you know passing gay hate crime laws will cause a death in peoples freedom of speech? non religious reporters reporting on how gay people have a higher AIDS rate then other people will be thrown in jail or be forced to pay a high fine! just because some gay thought he was trying to discourage people from being gay!
hate crimes laws crush free speech. and free speech was what the founding fathers wanted us to have. the reason people come here is because of all the freedom!
in cases of racial or gay’s being attacked, that will always be around, and if we try anything drastic, people might end up dead.
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February 1, 2010
I have a simple solution, religious Americans have the option to sign their rights away and live under biblical law, with the exception of children who can make the choice at 18.
Under Bibical law they can stone to death others working on a Sunday who are also under biblical law.
Those under BL can stone adulterers also following biblical law and folow all the wonderful teachings in the bible including owning others under BL as slaves.Of course those not living under biblical law will continue life as usual and those under BL who wrongly use BL against those who follow standard law will be shot in the head immediately as an example.
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February 25, 2010
Ever wonder why the framers of our Constitution gave Freedom of Speech top billing in the Bill of Rights, followed by our right to bear arms? Because if we lose our voice, we can still pick up a weapon and get it back!
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February 27, 2010
The thing is, we shouldn’t even be voting on gay rights… they’re *rights* and rights are NOT determined by a majority vote. They are constant. I mean, shit, if we had to vote on rights women still wouldn’t be allowed to vote and blacks would still be slaves.
Oh, I keep forgetting: that’s why conservatives hate liberals.
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March 17, 2010
Passerby … I agree, but on the other hand women still aren’t treated well or respected that much. I wish I knew what it was going to take, but women are the majority and have A LOT of power and we have to get smart about things and learn how to use it and reclaim our self respect – look at the stupd TV shows exploiting stupid women. Look up how many young girls are forced into sexual trafficing and how much the politicians and police look the other way. We could stop a lot of the women bashing and gay bashing if we wold stop allowing ourselves to be treated like a disposable resource.
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July 1, 2010
As an American I need to say that–you are 100% right. The fact that there are other countries that are fucked up does nothing to mitigate the fact that the USA is in a horrible cycle of idiocy. I blame our news media for a lot of it, but there is plenty of stupidy going around here.
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