Creationism is alive and well in the United States. Despite their laughingly terrible arguments, backers of “intelligent design” continue to flood education institutions with materials they hope will throw doubt as to the truth of Evolution by means of Natural selection .Their latest tactic is this book; a republication of Darwin’s “Origin of Species” with a twist; the introduction is a 50 page attack on Darwin, accusing him of the causing the Holocaust, of being a racist (find me one person living in 19th century England that wasn’t), and of even doubting the truth of his own theory. They misquote him at every turn (a tactic that Ben Stein used extensively in his terrible movie “Expelled: No intelligence allowed”), and suggest that Darwin wanted to use evolution to justify genocide. Here are some choice passages:
Do you think that DNA’s amazing structure could have come together by accident? Or does it point to an intelligent Designer? Even the director of the U.S. National Human Genome Research Institute concluded there is a God based on his study of DNA.
Richard Dawkins, arguably the most famous of atheists, can’t claim the title “atheist,” because he understands that something must have created everything. He said, “Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.”
Keeping in mind that the most intelligent of human beings can’t create a grain of sand from nothing, do you think that that “something” that made everything was intelligent? It obviously is; and if you do believe the “force” that made the flowers, the birds, the trees, the human eye, and the sun, the moon and the stars was intelligent, you then believe that there was an intelligent designer. You have just become an unscientific knuckle-dragger in the eyes of our learning institutions that embrace Darwinism.
Jesus freak extrordinaire Kirk Cameron is the mastermind behind this project. He wants his copy of Origins to be picked up by schools. Personally, I’m sickened by the idea that these intellectual midgets would publish one of the most important scientific theories of all time with a 50 page indictment in the front. What a strange schyzophrenic message that must seem to children! It’s not enough for these guys to let the material stand on it’s own right; they have to try to sabotage the learning process in order to force their sky god down our throats.
Hey guys, how would you like it if I started printing Bibles with a disclaimer at the front that said: “Warning, materials covered in this book are of a racist, bigoted and violent nature. It should be kept well out of the reach of children, and people with a history of mental disorder should avoid reading it. The characters depicted are fictional; and any similarity with persons living or deceased is entirely coincidental.” Would you find that offensive? You know what, that gives me an idea…
NOTE: I’ve just recorded a podcast with more details about Kirk, his organization, and his recruiting techniques. Click here to listen to our popular podcast!
June 24th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Wow, this is a new low for Kirk Cameron.
June 24th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
You know that icon of Psyduck holding his head in obvious pain and annoyance? I’m doing that right now.
What the mad fuck, Kirk Cameron? The saddest part is that he probably thinks this is cleverly subversive.
June 24th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Did anyone else notice the quote on the site:
“It’s like a book with multiple personality disorder — two parts that absolutely hate each other; an intro that is the inane product of one of the most stupid minds of our century, and a science text that is the product of one of the greatest minds of the author’s century.”
- PZ Myers, biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris
This is seriously a new low for the creation movement. I suppose after losing in the courts they must feel the only way they can win is to lie outright.
June 24th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
If your idea is to publish the bible with a new 50 intro, i say go for it and how can I help. If these are the tactics theists are using, then we should do the same. I can only imagine the publicity and “controversy” this would generate in the media. Especially on FOX news.
June 24th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
The funny thing is after you have read the first 50 pages of mindless arguments against the book, the rest details something completely different, showing that Kirk didn’t even read the book he is claiming is wrong.
The sad thing is that if this gets put in schools, kids will read the intro thinking its true and not read the rest of the book properly, if at all.
To combat this, someone needs to make a similar version of the bible, one that actually addresses the book itself, and then present it to Kirk
June 24th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
I still don’t quite understand why they put PZ’s quote on their page. Unless it’s to say “look what those mean atheists are saying now”…
June 24th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
The quote at the bottom of the page made me laugh. I don’t think this guy even read it before publishing.
The Bible with a disclaimer is a great idea. We could try and get into as many churches and religious organizations as possible.
June 24th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
This is an abomination. I just have a few questions: Is the Origin of Species our of copyright? Can someone sue to stop this? Is there a copyright on the bible? Where do I send my check to fund 50 pages it the forward of the bible? When does Kirk Cameron get committed for our safety?
June 24th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
You can’t really do anything to stop these guys. The book is public domain, but technically, so is the Bible. We should create a special “annotated” Bible for everyone as revenge for this…
June 24th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
I think the best part about this, thinking back to my early school career, is that I nor my peers ever read the introduction to any assigned reading. Who bothers to read the introduction in public school? As far as I was concerned, it was a pain to have to read anything by some lame bearded dude, let alone the part they aren’t testing on. While this type of attitude is lamentable, it just might save some kid someday from this book! Yay Laziness!
June 24th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
@Jacob: they have the skeptics Bible on the internet, why shouldn’t we take it to the next level?
June 24th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Tell you what, if you print that version of the Bible, I will gladly buy it to add on to my collection.
June 24th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Thanks for posting this. I just bought a hardcover copy of Origin. Minus the jesus freaks, fortunately. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1402756399/ It’s pretty nice. But there is a jesus freak one star review on the page, by someone who says he denies that “evolution created the universe.” Guess he didn’t read the book.
I love the idea of an annotated bible, btw. Brilliant!
June 24th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
“What would Jesus do?” Apparently, he would trick people who are looking to read an important work of science into reading blatant religious propaganda.
June 24th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
*Hey guys, how would you like it if I started printing Bibles with a disclaimer at the front*
Been done: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
June 24th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
couldn’t all of these religious zealots find a real problem to attack rather than science? i can think of some people around the world in real need of help, in more dire situations than reading a scientific theory.
June 24th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Here’s an easy way to put an end to this book – buy it, find out it’s not what you originally expected, and sue the hell out of Kirk for product misrepresentation. Make him so broke he’ll wish he never dared to do such a thing.
Sue the publisher as well.
June 24th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Anybody know who the publisher of this tripe is?
June 24th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Stopping the printing is impossible, why not start a project to razor the first 50 pgs out of every distributed copy…Worldcat FTW
June 24th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Just wondering, Have you ever heard of social Darwinism? Most eugenicists justified their view point with the “scientific enlightenment” that Darwin introduced to society.
June 24th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
OK, I have a copy of Origin Of Species, and it has about twice as many pages as this ‘abridged’ copy, did they just edit out all the big words?
I find it sooo ironic that those asshats who claim to have the moral highground never seem to have any problem stretching the truth to it’s breaking point. Good thing they have Jesus to forgive them.
June 24th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
This strategy isn’t really news. Comfort has a blog called “Atheist Central”, the Disco-tute has their “Evolution News & Views” blog. If you really want to stoop to their level, then I’d suggest registering a domain attractive to christians and then host an atheist blog on it or set it up as a re-direction to TGA or something like that. Razoring pages from books is silly, you may as well join the anti-gay people calling for a book burning outside of their library. As noted above we already have the skeptic annotated bible which is hosted online and free for anyone. The cool thing about the skeptics annotated bible is that it addresses directly what is written in the bible as apposed to a 50 page fallacy riddled introduction by a person who doesn’t comprehend the information being presented therein. The only thing I’m wondering about is: This is an abridged edition, which probably means there is the possibility of quote-mining and leaving out the rest of the statements that would put the quotes into proper context. Darwin wrote in great detail the reasons why he came to his conclusions; if you abridge the book, you can just leave all those details out. The people who order books from Kirk and Ray are not people who care about facts and reason. They have been selling the “Atheist’s Bible” and the “Charles Darwin Bible” for a long time. I expect that there will be nothing new in this book as far as arguments and challenges. The only thing I think is sad is that they will cowardly hack and chop away at Darwin’s writing to make it fit their caricature instead of addressing exactly what he wrote. But as I haven’t read it or any reviews, time will tell what this book actually is. Anyone who is genuinely curious, will purchase an unabridged copy and read his work for what it is.
@yep – Herbert Spencer. In its day eugenics was backed by science and also by churches. When people have insufficient data, they will be more likely to do stupid things. IE/ Not knowing about germs and using bloodletting as a cure for disease. As we learn we abandon silly ideas. Are you saying that the theory of evolution is bad because people for a time backed eugenics? To put that kind of argument in perspective I’ll use a silly but parallel example. Remember the events of September 11? That was a very horrible event; we must therefore conclude that planes don’t fly.
June 25th, 2009 at 12:13 am
Two things:
1) Francis Collins (the Human Genome guy) decided christianity was “true” because he, when out for a walk one day, saw a waterfall frozen into three streams (I shit you not!) (apparently something to do with the three gods the christians have) and nothing to do with DNA (yes, Comfort is still a lying git—so no surprise there); and
2) you could do worse than linking the title of Expelled in your OP to Expelled Exposed.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Sometimes the public domain can be a real pain in the ass.
June 26th, 2009 at 3:33 am
Publishing the Bible with a 50 page disclaimer? Great idea, I’m in.
June 30th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
I find it interesting the author of this website is telling people not to freely read something. If the atheist is truly a free being, then simply reading an opposing opinion should not be something to fear.
The following is the most true statement written by a man I have ever read, please consider it:
“Monstrous is the madness of the human mind that is more disposed to charge GOD with unrighteousness than to blame itself for blindness”.
If you are truly open minded then you should be able to truly and openly, possibly be able to open mindedly entertain that you could possibly be wrong, or even possibly blinded in some way…
If you are open minded, that is…
Why do you suppose it is that men don’t like a man who one of his own disciples told a crowd…
“How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.” Acts 10:38
Why would not the really open minded world embrace such a man?
What else is it about Him or what He said that bothers really open minded people?
Any ideas?
June 30th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
So I’m close minded because I’m advising people that Intelligent Design is false? We all have to strike a balance between keeping an open mind, and rejecting information we know to be false. ID is nothing more than gussied up religious creationism. All you prove, Mike, is that there is a definite connection between ID and religiosity.
Try not to be so open minded that your brain falls out.
June 30th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Hi Jacob,
What is religiosity?
I am not interested in these man made labels…
Religion is where man invents his own God and how to appease him all the while being corrupt in their natures.
Are we not talking about origins and how we got here?
You may call me religeous or like Kirk Cameron a “Jesus Freak”, but that has nothing to do with how we got here.
If you are open minded then why mock the author(s) and let others make up their minds.
By the way, I know the atheist is alot closer to the truth than most so called “Christians” today in the west.
At least somewhere down in your inner being you fear God enough to know that you must disprove His existence, because if “He is” at least you are smart enough to know you are in trouble (if He is real).
When I was where you are I had to be open minded enough to truly look at all points of view, are you this open minded, have you ever approached the creator question with enough honesty to entertain that you might be wrong?
How sure are you there is no God?
Are you absolutely sure?
I know you are not sure any more than anyone else if they are intellectually honest.
Is science absolutely perfect?
Let’s you and I look back in time at the steadfastness of scientific unchangeable “for sures”…
I appreciate the exchange, your website is well done, good job!
Thanks, Mike
June 30th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
I suggest an amendment to the thread title then: Don’t buy this version of “Origin of Species”
If you ever come across it, pick it up, read the first 50 pages, spend 2 hours researching why it is wrong (if you don’t already know) and move on with your life.
“At least somewhere down in your inner being you fear God enough to know that you must disprove His existence, because if “He is” at least you are smart enough to know you are in trouble (if He is real).”
This is the most ridiculous argument. I was afraid of Freddy Krueger when I was 6 years old. I outgrew fear of fictional characters as I aged. I’m not running around disproving the existence of Freddy Krueger.
If you’re believing in a god because you’re afraid of him, or even the possibility of him, then I don’t know what else to do but feel sorry for you. The burden of proof is on the believer not the non-believer. Atheists aren’t really disproving anything and don’t make any claims to that effect that I’m aware of. Belief in a god doesn’t mean you have to disprove all other gods does it? We’re all agnostic in the face of an infinite possible set of gods.
“Is science absolutely perfect?
Let’s you and I look back in time at the steadfastness of scientific unchangeable “for sures”…”
I puke a little in my mouth when I read this line of reasoning. You see, one of the wonderful aspects of science is that it changes with new evidence. I don’t see how you can believe it an argument against science when essentially stating, “Science once asserted X is true, we now know that it is not. Because X is wrong we conclude that science can be wrong. Therefore, all of science can be wrong.” It’s an extrapolation of what you said so correct me if I’ve misinterpreted your intent. Show me where science is claiming anything near ‘perfection’.
The faithful, in infinite arrogance, are the only people I know of that are proclaiming unchanging truths from their source of information. I have to leave work now!
July 1st, 2009 at 6:54 am
Hi lifer,
I appreciate your comments, thank you for responding, however, this will be my last post because round and round debate never gets anywhere.
I will address first your first comment.
Comparing your creator to Freddy Krueger is ridiculous at best, blasphemous at worst.
The reason you could make such a comparison is because you have willfully refused to ever give God and His Word any serious look to see what He possibly has revealed of Himself to us.
Yes, He should be feared, He is Holy, righteous and absolutely pure.
I see no-where where He makes any apologies for commanding your fear and awe.
If we have no fear of authority of any kind in life we both know this would be called anarchy.
If you were blessed to have a good earthly Dad, you probably feared his punishment when you willfully did wrong…
Second and last, you over exaggerate my point on science (knowledge)…
Is humankind perfect?
If not, science and all we think we know has limits and yes, it is flawed.
Look at what science is now finding out about cells with new technology, all of what it takes to produce one live cell is a random cosmic accident?
I may be stupid as can be, but I cannot figure out how non-life, no-life, no-thing, produced living, live things…
I would hope anyone reading this had one little shred of sanity and could open their eyes to see the truth…
Ever look at DNA?
Ever seen the Sun, 1 million times earths size and burns incredibly hot and never extinguishes?
Seen the new furthest from us Galaxy with approximately 14.5 million stars?
Seen the new black hole?
We are so small but think we are so big…
The only thing any of us are guaranteed to know for sure is we all die one day…
But, in closing I know why we run from truth, it is found in the following…
John 3:19-20 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
The truth about all of us is, we love doing our own thing and throw off anyone greater than us even being a possibility. We think we are our own god.
Please repent all of you and turn to the LORD so that times of refreshing will come from Him…
Respectfully, Mike
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:29 am
May I suggest a title for the bible we would like to see published, drawing attention to the bizarrae statements and other flaws?
The Holey Bible
July 2nd, 2009 at 5:34 am
This is not a new idea!
http://www.greenwych.ca/bible-a.htm
http://www.rev.net/~aloe/bible/
among others
July 2nd, 2009 at 6:35 am
Michael,
I have the feeling that you are placing God as the answer to all these questions because you either haven’t the intelligence to research the answers on your own or it is just easier for you to not even think about it. If ‘God did it’ is your answer to every question, we can’t have a rational conversation. If you’re going to quote scripture to me as some form of evidence you aren’t going to succeed, I’d rather you attempt with some Dr. Suess. At least it rhymes.
July 15th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Kirk Cameron is moronic for doing this. I believe that even if I was a Christian, I would be disappointed in this. Sigh, atheism for the win.
July 16th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
A) DNA is too complex for us to understand
B) ?
C) Proof of existence of an omnipotent creator
July 24th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
Everyday, something happens to reaffirm the decision I made to homeschool my kids. If I ever do decide to check this book out, my children will know it’s Darwin’s sh*t, pimped out Xtian-style. They’ve read the ‘real’ book already.
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:55 am
We need to get the Atheist Alliance to print bibles with a 50 to 100 page introduction stating how full of shit the book is just as stated in the article above. I would be happy to donate a 1k a month for the next year or two to fund that project, and I know plenty of others would would donate as well!! Lets hand them out at the top Christian Universities and Churches all over the country.
September 8th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Good idea.
Please put me down for two copies of your “Bible 2.0″
September 8th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
By the way…did you download the PDF of the intro here? http://www.livingwaters.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=383
The file (and front page) is entitled “Origin Of Species” – thus misrepresenting the introduction itself as Darwin’s book in its entirety.
Isn’t there anyone to bring a suit?
October 8th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
A bible with a disclaimer…. That’s effectively along the same lines as this Darwin edit. Imagine the bible with an atheistic foreword.
I understand the ID idea because logically, it is impossible to have something out of nothing. Christianity conveniently plugged this gap by listing a quality of God as Creator-ex-nihilo, which means ‘creator out of nothing’.
Although i believe the logic to be true, why does ‘God’ should He exist, be used as the physical creator?
October 11th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Just accept the book, read the darn 50 pages of trash for a good laugh and then rip them off.
The rest is worth keeping.
I used to get annoyed, then mad, at those stupid christian rants, but now I just have a good laugh.
October 14th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Richard Dawkins: “Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.” So therefore, in theist terms, there must be a god. The problem is theists use a different form of English to scientists. The important word in this statement by Dawkins is “appearance”, not “designed” and in fact he is saying exactly the opposite to “he understands that something must have created everything” meaning that “something” is a god, unless of course by “something” you mean evolution.
November 5th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
I 100% agree attacking Darwinism is NOT the answer. I am baffled by the point of the 50 page indictment and I assure you many Christians do not support this publishing endeavor. I totally respect Darwin’s work, even though I have some fundamental problems with it— as many intellectuals, theologians, and philosophers do.
November 13th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
The Mennonites of 19th century England (along with the Quakers and some Anglican clergy too) were anti-racists in 19th century England. The Mennonites almost universally opposed the slave trade and saw all ethnicities as equal. With that being said, Kirk Cameron is ridiculous and this whole idea of “baiting” people into reading about Darwin’s ideas strikes me as really disingenuous at best. Then again, I’m a fan of pluralism, so if they wanna publish it, they should be able to, even if it’s ultimately a load of shit. Attacking Richard Dawkins in order to disprove Darwin’s (essentially proven!) theories is a straw man technique…but I wouldn’t expect and reasonable scholarship from Kirk Cameron in the first place.
January 14th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
people, you guys have no idea how RIGHT that book is….and really, do you have to be so bad mouthing? here is a quote:they have to try to sabotage the learning process in order to force their sky god down our throats.
i mean really, do we creationists say that? and that was in context too!
so if you want to argue creationism or evolution, please go contact kirk camron, or ben stien and argue with them, or do what Lee strobel did.
i can expect some bad language after this post, and some name calling, but then that shows how quick you people are at putting other people down. and if that is what evolution does to people who go along with that THEORY. then i don’t want to be part of it.
January 14th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
also, just a thought. despite all the years Darwin’s theory has engaged our schools and minds, we still have not found COMPLETELY UNDENIABLE PROOF of fossils that show a transitional species. however, the bible is used to find ancient cities and has the same theme despite being written over hundreds of years. can Darwin’s origin of species say the same?
January 14th, 2010 at 10:08 pm
This is going to sound arrogant.
With most topics of discussion I like to believe that I argue in a civil manner. But atheists like myself find the stupidity of creationists very very frustrating. It’s hard to stay civil when your constantly banging your head against a wall. It’s like having an argument with an over confident 4 year old. You don’t deserve the respect. If you want to be treated like an adult then stop believing in fairly tales. Otherwise when you speak up and raise the same ridiculously brainless points you mention above then you’ll continue to be shot down in flames using not so polite language.
Insert Neanderthal sounding voice:
- “we still have not found completely undeniable proof of fossils that show a transitional species”.
- Evolution is just a “THEORY”.
Your probably a kind hearted decent person and that’s all that really matters. But for fucks sake! Wake up to yourself!
January 15th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Matty, thank you for replying, but you haven’t given me any evidence for evolution, please give me some good hard evidence so that i might think it over. as for the bible being a bunch of fairy tales, why did primitive man come up with such an idea? it doesn’t seem rational for some scum water to suddenly think. “is there a god?” in fact, if you can tell me how a monkey on two legs could suddenly think deep profound thoughts, ill look it over.
please no flaming, as it does not lead to a good debate, and i know debate.
in reply to your saying that “creationists are 4 year olds” shouldn’t the “parent” continue to try “correct” their children? and anyway, as i said, your bad language has simply shown me what horrible debaters you people are. all flaming and no evidence.
January 15th, 2010 at 5:08 pm
also, here is some proof that there is a designer for creation: Cells, if you can explain how such a complex and amazing “simple life form” came into being out of some dead watery soup, then i’ll seriously consider becoming an atheist.
January 15th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
Another topic to bring up….why is it that Christianity is the most persecuted religion in the world, almost every country today is very very hostile. and what has Christianity done to them? nothing! it hasn’t disobeyed the laws without good reason, and creationism is mostly shut down in most places. if your a christian, the answer would be Satan and his demons, if your not, you will not come up with a very solid answer.
January 15th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
Mate, there’s shit loads of evidence on evolution out there published by people plenty smarter than you and me. Try Richard Dawkins latest book, “The Greatest Show On Earth: The Evidence for Evolution”.
“here is some proof that there is a designer for creation: Cells, if you can explain how such a complex and amazing “simple life form” came into being out of some dead watery soup, then I’ll seriously consider becoming an atheist.”
Once again, this is just the sort of comment that wraps things up nicely. The difference between an atheist and a theist is simply fear and stupidity. Some people just can’t accept/comprehend that we don’t know all the answers yet. The thought that this is the only existence we will ever experience and that we don’t know what the fuck it is scares the shit out of people like you. So your default answer is a nice comfortable, “God did it”. And then you make a GIANT fucking leap of reasoning and say that this being also published a book on how to live!? Sweet! Now I don’t have to be scared anymore!
And what really gets me is that, whatever the answer to your question is, it applies to every living thing. Why do people like you put human beings up on such a high petal stool!? We’re just bald monkeys buddy!
“Mankind has shown its insecurity by its belief in a greater purpose.” — -Michael Pain
The human race will hopefully get there one day. In the very very distant future we may evolve enough intelligence to answer these questions. In the mean time just chill the fuck out and enjoy.
“most persecuted religion in the world”!? What the fuck? Am I missing something here? Maybe it’s because I live in Australia and I’m very naive to this statement. But all my religious mates don’t seem too persecuted? Besides me paying the shit out of them for being stupid, we get along fine. Can another Atheist out there shed some like on this question?
January 15th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Whoops! – Can another Atheist out there shed some light on this question?
January 15th, 2010 at 9:06 pm
ummmmm your religious mates are not in china being hit with cattle prods every 3 minuets. as for your evidence, i could say the same thing with “Answers in genesis” find your evidence and books there. as for saying “lets just say god did it” really? that the best answer? i could say, “lets just say that millions of years happend”
and no. god didn’t publish it, he inspired it.
as for evolving to a higher state,i don’t think we can get any higher, mainly due to the fact that 11 years ago the ipod was not even thought of, and now look! all this new tech! whats to say that the people during biblical times were not making great inroads.
January 15th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
another to “God did it”
i can not leave the bible and the God of the bible out of this conversation. just as you cannot leave all the books on evolution out of this conversation.
if you can support your view with out referencing to any of the evolutionist worldview, i won’t use the bible.
January 15th, 2010 at 9:11 pm
in response to your other arguement, the “bald monkey one”
how is it that out of all the creatures on earth, we only “evolved” to an extent that we actually think the way we do?
January 15th, 2010 at 9:16 pm
and another response to your “we haven’t evolved enough to understand things”
how is it that we can say God did it but you can’t say evolution did it?
you evolutionist are devoting millions of dollars to fund your finds and research, but all that money, the best tech available, all that time since. nothing.
you will most likely reply we aren’t that advanced, but that seems to be a version of my answer, “God did it”
January 15th, 2010 at 10:04 pm
“i can not leave the bible and the God of the bible out of this conversation. just as you cannot leave all the books on evolution out of this conversation.”
Yes I can, my books are written and peer reviewed by some of the greatest minds in the world. They rely on evidence. Your book was written in the bronze age by people “inspired” by a mythical creature. This is why atheists like myself have a problem with religion. You all have your different versions of the “truth” that you fight over. Your all wrong, and the sooner you all realise it the better.
January 15th, 2010 at 10:12 pm
ok, then convince me that the world was formed by millions of years with out your evolutionary worldview.
January 15th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
as a response to different denominations, all i can say is, how do you destroy something? by causing everyone to fight each other, and if you really want to know, their is such thing as the supernatural. why else would that be a topic that fascinates people. because something did happen.
January 15th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
supernatural, sorry, bad grammar.
January 15th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
by the way, nice debating with you. i have always wanted to do this exchange of worldviews.
January 15th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
Mate, seriously, if you don’t have the brain power to figure out for yourself that the earth is millions of years old then there’s no hope. That’s fairly basic shit. Like I said, trying to argue with a 4 year old. There’s no such thing as the super natural. If you can prove that there is then make sure you hook me up with a 10% finders fee: http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html
The sad thing about all this is that people like you are so completely brainwashed that there’s no return to listening to reason and logic. The best us atheists can hope for is that your deluded perception of the world will die with you.
No worries. It is enjoyable debating this with you. I know I come across harsh but it’s nothing personal. I assume your from the states? Your the first proper creationist I have argued with. They seem to be a dying breed here in Oz.
January 16th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
you assumed correctly, by the way, i won’t be debating anymore on this subject. (not saying that you won, but that’s up to you) See ya later!
January 22nd, 2010 at 12:43 am
ok im back with a new arguement.
have there been any recordings of macro-evolution that is observational?
please no flaming.
January 26th, 2010 at 9:19 am
@creationist:
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho7GaI2rCwI&feature=related if you’re going to ask that question.
January 30th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
thank you kevin for your time. however, the evolution you promote still requires that a bacteria turn into a “higher creature” say, a jelly fish like creature, now, i don’t see how a group of independent bacteria, would group and over 1000000s of years, slowly fuse into one single minded creature.
As for definition for kind or species, what creationists mean (or my def. in any case) is Family, which is taken from the classification system. yes the cat is in the same kingdom/phylum/class/order, as the dog, but not in the same Family. also, a horsky (horse plus donkey) is still in the same Family.
addressing the term of adding new information on the genes, you can’t add new info to a chromosome that turns one creature into a radically different creature, mutations don’t add, despite all the superheroes falling into radioactive material. you will not gain extra strength, your body is programed not to exceed a certain limit of strength. mutations cause a loss of info. such as the blind salamander.
that my esteemed opponent, is what i am getting at, a bacterium forming into a larger more “advanced” creature, like a jellyfish, which some how turns into a fish…
February 1st, 2010 at 12:39 pm
@Creationist:
Horsky?… They’re called mules / hinnies and they’re almost complete sterile (60 documented cases of fertile female mules, 1 documented case of a fertile female hinny, and 0 fetile males) – thus horses and donkeys are different species.
That point aside. It’s all about genes and alleles and transfering of information from parent to offspring. Don’t discount the element of time. There’s been almost 4 billion years of life on this planet. I’ve lived for 25 years. Life has been on this planet 160,000,000 times longer than I’ve been alive. 25 years seems like a long time, I can’t even begin to fathom 4 billion years.
Mutations aren’t all bad – http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB102.html – read that for a better definition. If you’re really interested in learning, Talk Origins has a lot of very helpful – if possibly a little advanced – information.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:52 pm
Christianity is a rat, dying in the sewer. Illogically, it attacks others that have a better chance of survival, but it is fighting a fight it cannot win.