Jacob vs Jesus: battle for God status

I found this website the other day, and thought some of you might be amused by what they are trying to ‘prove’. This is a site obviously masquerading as scholarly, and asking pointless questions like: “Did Jesus lie when he claimed he was a God”. That this question is even asked seems so ridiculous I don’t feel the need to answer it. I shall, therefore, prove to all my loyal readers that I, Jacob Fortin am a God by using the same arguments.

I shall begin by making the statement first. I am God. Ok, that was easy enough. Do I have proof? Well, I never told a lie, so if that’s true, then I have to be a God. Unlike other religious figures, who spoke wisely of their religion but never claimed to be a supreme being, Jesus and I have something in common; we just went for it. Of course, there’s a bunch of miracles he supposedly performed, but rest assured, I have a few tricks up my sleeve. I once rose a guy from the dead. I’m telling you the truth here. Hard to believe, right? Well, you’ll just have to take my word for it, and if you don’t, you’ll burn in Hell forever. Does that sound a little harsh? Ok, tell you what; I’m a kind God, so I’ll only let you burn in hell for 2-3 weeks. I think that’s pretty fair.

Lastly, I need some kind of easy wisdom to pass along. Some might think if I was a God, I would know the answers to some of the Universe’s toughest questions. I wouldn’t just go spouting moral platitudes until the cows come home. I’m going to give you, my children, some much wiser insights than that. Did you know the Universe was over 13 billion years old? Well, Jesus sure didn’t, and that seems like a pretty big oversight for a God to make. You might be tempted to tell me almost everyone else who has a high school education can tell you that, but so what? It certainly doesn’t prove I learned that fact from anywhere other than my Godly brain.

Well, I seemd to have passed all of the tests laid out by these fucking clowns, so I’ll leave you to ponder how you will come to worship me. Remember, all other Gods are false gods, since they have failed to prove how divine they are by these highly rigorous tests. Now don’t you feel better knowing Biblical scholars are out there doing the hard research? I know I am!

Comments (20)

  • avatar

    Ben

    Ok, you got me to come out of my hole on that one :)

    Did you also fulfill 200+ prophecies predicted 700+ years before your birth? Perhaps you died on a cross (as predicted you would, btw), then were resurrected 3 days later?

    As for the age of the universe deal, there’s arguements to be made for both “Old Earth” and “Young Earth” creationism. I’m not sold either way, it’s not really a critical issue for me. If the earth is 5000 years old or billions of years old, it doesn’t change whether or not Jesus died for my sins. I’m fine with a bit of mystery.

  • avatar

    Jacob Fortin

    why would you need proof anyways? Faith is maintaining a belief despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. If you need proof to believe in something, does it not show that how doubtful you are?

    You should believe in me as a God specifically because there is no proof. Duh!

  • avatar

    Ben

    That’s not what faith is to me, or probably any other Christian. Faith is believing in something BECAUSE of the evidence, and because what the evidence suggests makes the most sense.

  • avatar

    Jacob Fortin

    so, you believe that if you were born in any other country, in any other religious tradition that made similar claims and had it’s own internal consistency, you would reject that and believe in Jesus? Is it not possible that you have seriously misjudged how logical and sensible it all is? If your answer is no, then i suggest you ask yourself how true something must be if you are never willing to question your assumptions.

  • avatar

    Ben

    You assume I’ve been a Christian all my life. Quite the contrary. I was agnostic for a very long time. It was because I was questioning things that lead my to decide the Jesus must be the way. Being a Christian isn’t just having blind faith in something, it’s a having faith in something that there’s a lot of evidence for. So, if I was born in a foreign country, I believe I would reject any other faith in light of Christianity.

    Do yourself a favor, read “The Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel (i think that’s how it’s spelled). The author was doing much the same thing. Was atheist or agnostic, went out looking for answers, came to the same conclusion that I, and many others, did.

  • avatar

    AcadianBacon

    “Faith is believing in something BECAUSE of the evidence, and because what the evidence suggests makes the most sense”

    faith   

    –noun

    1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another’s ability.
    2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
    3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
    4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
    5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
    6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
    7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one’s promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
    8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.

    That’s the dictionary’s definition. Since the evidence suggests that the above definition makes the most sense, then we can therefore determine that your statement is patently ridiculous.

  • avatar

    Jacob Fortin

    Ben, you also assume that I have not done my homework on the issue. But I want you to consider something very important: that you may believe what you believe out of a powerful need for both order, structure, and meaning. Let’s pretend that the question of the existence of god boiled down to an equal, 50-50 chance of being true or false. All things being equal, we cannot discount our motivation in coming to believe something. But when we examine the consequences of both belief and unbelief, we see a telling fact: that people who believe in God have a great deal to gain from his existence. So much so, that we can understand the compulsion to ignore any evidence that suggests that it may not in fact be true. There is nothing to gain from Atheism. It is a rejection of belief in the supernatural, and as such, differs entirely with the history of belief. I’m not using this argument to prove decisively that there is no God, but it seems to me entirely suspect that a person would believe in something that holds so much importance to them to be true. I am interested in the truth, regardless of how gritty, dirty, and messy it may be. I constantly question my assumption, because i know that if I don’t, i am being influenced by the idea itself not to question it.

  • avatar

    Jacob Fortin

    btw, when i finish writing my book, I’m counting on you to read it. It’ll be a true test of whether or not your assumptions on Jesus can pass the true test of scrutiny

  • avatar

    Ben

    Good point Bacon. Maybe what Jacob and I are trying to describe isn’t faith at all. Perhaps it’s more like:

    Hypothesis

    1 a: an assumption or concession made for the sake of argument b: an interpretation of a practical situation or condition taken as the ground for action
    2: a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences
    3: the antecedent clause of a conditional statement

    Since there’s evidence, my assumption, in this case, would be that God exists and that Jesus is who the Bible says He was (in a nutshell). Maybe I’m way off, but I’ll play along for fun :)

  • avatar

    Ben

    Jacob: I understand atheism and your arguments for it. I’m all about truth! I wouldn’t be here if I wasn’t. In my opinion tho, there’s a lot more evidence for believing Christianity is correct than not.

    And of course I’ll read your book, I look forward to it! Do you have a date for when it will be out?

  • avatar

    AcadianBacon

    Well, if you are going to read “The Case for Christ”, then perhaps balance that with “The God Delusion”. That being siad, I personally think that all the strife caused by religious beliefs in the world is more a result of the human condition, rather than the religious one. I think if there wasn’t God to fight over, we’d be fighting over watermelons, or pineapples, or sand, or whatever. We’re a pretty combative species, even with God removed from the equation. A firm belief in a higher moral authority can be a good thing, and has been (Dalai Llama, Thich Nhat Hanh, Thomas Merton, etc..) a useful tool in making better people. So, go faith!, if it suits you…

  • avatar

    Ben

    Bacon hits another one out of the park! Yeah, I think it’s just our nature (our sin nature, if u ask me) to fight each other, regardless of the topic. I’ve seen a lot of debates and interviews featuring Christopher Hitchens, tho I haven’t read “The God Delusion” yet. Seems like a pretty bright guy.

  • avatar

    Jacob Fortin

    I think we fight for things we care deeply about. In my opinion, however, the relative existence or non existence of something does in a sense effect how willing you are to defend it. Natural resources are fought over because there is a limited supply, but it doesn’t mean we can’t as a species find ways to manage it appropriately. However, fighting over something that has no physical existence can only be concluded when there is either a universal acceptance (which is unlikely) or a universal tolerance (which is also highly unlikely). Even if the argument that humans are combative, it seems highly dangerous to combine that with an improvable idea that encourages martyrdom and fanatical adherence even in spite of evidence disproving it.

  • avatar

    AcadianBacon

    Jacob, I completely agree that the idea is improvable. I also contend that it is ridiculous. There is no God. There isn’t some omnipotent being in the sky staring down patting the good ones on the head and spankingthe bad ones. I agree. What there is though, is a human capacity to be filled with wonder, to ponder deeply what it means to be human, to observe our intelligence and be in awe of it. We have a soul, in that sense. And while the idea of God does “encourage martyrdom and fanatical adherence”, it does in many instances also encourage grace, community, kindness, humility, benevolence, cooperation and insight. As with most things created by man, it’s a flawed system; I just hesitate to discount it as completely harmful. I think it has done alot of good as well. I also think that people who adhere to it are like cows in the pasture, slowly grazing the fields until they become somebody’s steak. Prime Rib, preferably.

  • avatar

    Jacob Fortin

    I don’t discount it that easily. but I don’t discount how Santa Claus can make kids behave more properly. I do not think, however, that the belief in Santa is needed to ensure that children behave decently, just as God isn’t needed for my to behave with grace nd kindness. I just think that the idea itself has benefited from the best PR campaign in the world. After all, if it was anything else, we would discount the good if it included the bad. Imagine a company that offered to it’s customers a pill that made them intensely happy, but for about 5% of the population, it drove them into fits f psychotic rage. I doubt the FDA would approve that one…

  • avatar

    AcadianBacon

    I think Santa spoils kids, and gives them a false sense of entitlement. I have ‘em, and they’re spoiled. I tell them there’s a Santa, they ask for something, and if they don’t get it; poof!! No Santa. It’s hard to deny them things even when they aren’t behaving. God isn’t needed for you to behave with grace & kindness, and from what I know of you through e-mail, and some discussion via this and your other website, you do seem a man who is both graceful & kind. I just think that for some people, those of the “faith”, a little guidebook is what helps them lead there lives. Some can think for themselves, and if most could, I think most would be agnostic/atheist. I’m an atheist, for sure, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like going to Christmas mass. It makes me feel good, nevermind the dogma, to sit there with other members of my community and hear a common message. Hypocritical, to be sure. In my younger years I tried to go to another church with my kids, because I thought a little religion couldn’t hurt. This one was Wesleyan, and when someone leaned over and whispered to my daughter, with a strange smile “Are we going to praise Jesus today!” I got the hell out of there.

  • avatar

    Reverend Clint

    I think people will fight over anything, if you don’t believe me look at looters in New Orleans. It the “Other Guy is Wrong” complex ALL humans have and it will never change. Religious people just have a reason they all can justify pretty easily to themselves and others. “They are sinners and must either convert or die” is something that has been going on since people began worshiping the sun or Jesus and will not end… EVER.

  • avatar

    JFHalsey

    Hey Ben!

    I used to be a hardcore, dyed-in-the-wool Evangelical Christian, myself. I mean ~hardcore~. Young Earth Creationist, speaking in tongues, laying on hands, absorbing no media but Biblical lessons, etc.
    I’ve read “A Case for Christ,” too, and I used to recommend it to people. Then I read the counter-arguments.
    Ouch.

    I believe it’s in Proverbs where it says, “Everything the first witness says is true, until the second witness comes to give his testimony” or something like that. The point is, you wouldn’t be a very good judge if you only listened to the defense and completely ignored the prosecution. Truth can stand on it’s own merit, and should be pursued vigourously and constantly.

    Here’s a good link to start you on your way: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/whynotchristian.html
    Note that it wasn’t articles like this that freed me of my christianity–that was a much longer and more painful process. But afterwards, when I found articles like this with such logical, cogent arguments, I remember wondering “what would have gone differently if I’d been exposed to arguments like this earlier?”

    Check it out. To quote Thomas Jefferson, “Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear”

  • avatar

    joe botelho

    Thanks for the link JFH that was a great article.

    I usalally would make some funny(to me anyways) remark or comment but i think that would ruin such a compeling debate in this comments sections.

    it’s debates like this that really get me exicted about being an athiest.

    And that book your writing hopefully it dosent just have alot of pictures of cock because im not gay. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

  • avatar

    Gordon

    “Did you also fulfill 200+ prophecies predicted 700+ years before your birth? Perhaps you died on a cross (as predicted you would, btw), then were resurrected 3 days later?”

    I bet he can fulfill prophecies predicted in this blog, especially if he can go back and re-write it.

    Sitting on a donkey ffs!

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